WHAT IS A MINIATURE GOLDENDOODLE?

While many breeders who create the Goldendoodle will tout the word "Miniature", it's important first to know what constitutes a dog as being a "Miniature" sized dog. What is a Miniature Goldendoodle? What do breeders mean when they say they breed "Miniature Goldendoodles"?  Lets discuss what a Miniature sized dog really is, first. The first question should be  "What constitutes a dog being defined as a Miniature sized dog?   According to AKC who is a Kennel Club (like hundreds of others) that has been around for quite sometime, the definition for a Miniature sized dog is a dog that does NOT exceed 25 pounds in genetic body weight, is a dog that does NOT stand over 15 inches tall from the paws to the  highest point of its shoulders (called the Withers) as an adult dog. It is also a dog that COMES FROM Miniature sized parents and ancestors. Breeders can not go by Kennel Standards when creating hybrids unless the parents and the  entire lineage, to include the puppies, are all one specific size. A hybrid dog is a dog that has been created by two purebred dogs of different breeds. It is not often that both parent dogs, who differ in breed type, are exactly the same weight or height or fall into the same size category defined by Kennel Club standards. Because of this fact, a hybrid dog can NOT be lumped into size groups by height and weight.  Many breeders who create the Goldendoodle  will claim that the Goldendoodle is "X" height or "Y" weight (citing gender) when in fact, this information is erroneous and inaccurate at best. Since 1999, we have personally witnessed male dogs as being smaller in genetic body weight as well as shorter in height  than the female dogs  as well as vice versa in any given litter regardless of the size of their parents. We have always witnessed consistency in everything except for size with hybrid dogs.

The simple reason that hybrids can not be categorized in size groups is because they don't have ancestors that are the same exact size over many generations, nor do they share size consistency over many generations. A hybrid is a hybrid because its lineage comes from two different breed types that do NOT share ancestry within their generations of lineage. This is what breeders mean when they say that hybrids do NOT breed "true".   CLICK HERE to see photos and read information about our first doodle litter created with a Toy Poodle and a Golden Retriever, WITHOUT the help of AI.  A classic example was when we documented a doodle litter created by our 8 pound Toy Poodle male and our 48 pound female Golden Retriever. It was NOT an "AI" mating.   In a litter of five, the largest puppy most likely would have been a 45 pound dog. (He was born stillborn for unknown reasons.) How do I know what his size would have been?  Because he was the same size we normally see out of our Goldendoodle puppies created with a Standard Poodle and a Golden Retriever who are approx. 45 and 55 lbs. respectively. He was not small like the other siblings.

The other Goldendoodle pups born in that very small doodle litter were the size of teeny, tiny mice as newborns.  Over time, they grew at a normal rate and progressed just as our average Goldendoodles do, but as they continued into puppy toddlers,  we did see a wide variance in their sizes per sibling. The largest surviving male in our Goldendoodle litter created with a Toy Poodle male and a Golden Retriever female weighed in at 18 pounds and 1 ounce at the age of 8 1/2 months. He was weighed by our vet so we know the weight was accurate.  We did not get his height, but he was Tall with nice long legs and full bodied. One female in the litter was taller than the other, had longer legs, but weighed less than the shorter  female  by just a couple of pounds. We  spoke to her owner and found that at nearly 1 year of age now, she weighed 15 pounds. Since she had already been spayed, its possible that 5 of those pounds were her not her  genetic weight. Our smallest surviving male has turned out to weigh (as of Jan 27th, 2007)  12 pounds. He is without a doubt, a little fire-cracker with a comical personality. He's spunky, playful, doesn't listen all that well and is fearless. His sister, whom we kept, is quite the opposite in personality. Suri  weighs (as of Jan. 27, 2007) 13 pounds. She has short legs but does NOT have a long back. Her structure is well proportioned for her size. She is very sweet to me, but is not stranger friendly.

The male to the left is the largest surviving male in the litter we are discussing.  On June 20th, 2006 he weighed 18 pounds and 1 ounce and was 8 1/2 months old.

We placed him with a family in New Jersey and unfortunately they have not kept in contact with us so that we can have updated photos and information about his progress.  The information on this page is accurate, honest, researched and documented doodle info that is very valuable to someone seeking a doodle under 25 pounds and we have used the two kept smaller doodles for our research.  Our research has proven that  although the father to these Goldendoodles was a mere 8 pound Toy Poodle, not a single puppy  turned out to be 8 pounds. Even though their mother was a 48 pound Golden Retriever, only 1 puppy in this litter would have possibly become as large as his mother, had he survived.  The sibling  temperament difference in this litter was like night and day and much different than what we have seen with our larger Goldendoodles.  We have extensive Goldendoodle information that we have documented, researched and experienced since 1999 and the information on our site pages with regards to Goldendoodles is  factual information. With regards to temperament for the smaller doodles (those under 25 pounds in genetic body weight), we have noticed that some  Goldendoodles this small can be quirky, skiddish and not stranger friendly. Quite a few Toy breeds have very similar personalities. It's been my own personal experience that Toy Poodles can vary in personality and it has been our experience that the same falls true for the little Goldendoodle.

Although some smaller Goldendoodles may have quirky temperaments, I don't  consider the difference to be negative, but I do  consider the difference to be an issue for someone who is NOT a Toy Breed fan or who is seeking a dog for their small children or one who is stranger friendly. While I am not lumping all in a group,  and this information is just from personal experience, we have found that IF someone is a Golden Retriever fan, they will have a very difficult time enjoying a Goldendoodle who is under 25 pounds as an adult simply because of the reasoning above.  They will be disappointed in the fact that the dogs are NOT as interactive with strangers or their children  as a Goldendoodle would if the dog is going to be a larger dog. Smaller Goldendoodles seem to have less confidence around people they are not familiar with; they take longer time in training, in getting to know their new families and may not work out with families who have small children who expect to have a very outgoing, playful puppy for their entire neighborhood.  Smaller doodles are DIVA doodles who like to sit in the lap and be cuddled and coddled as well as pampered.  They work out much better for older individuals who want a dog that is their own personal companion.  Children want a dog who is EVERYONE'S companion and friend.

While the small Goldendoodles I am speaking about completely showered ME with affection....acted confident around me...was playful and acted like a normal puppy around me.....They did not show the same confidence around their new family, nor were they immediately interactive with their new family.  This can be a let down for a family expecting a puppy to immediately begin playing with their children or interacting with anyone and everyone.

Immediate gratification from a puppy is not always going to happen regardless of their size. Some people have too high of an expectation and they "doom" their puppy because they are impatient.  I don't know why some people do this, but they do.  Another factor to take into consideration is the age of the dog. While an older puppy will learn to adjust to new surroundings, new smells, new voices, new lifestyle, family, people and just everything new, it is overwhelming for an older puppy to be suddenly displaced from its known surroundings. Time and patience is a must for an older dog coming into a new situation who is closer to one year of age and older. We encourage people to adopt older puppies and dogs when they have a chance, but its important to know that time, patience and alot of loving encouragement is needed so that the new "kid" on the block can ease into their new surroundings. Sometimes, People have unrealistic expectations and this places a tremendous amount of pressure and strain  on the new dog.

Unfortunately, some new owners won't give an older puppy or dog the chance to work out. They want immediate action...immediate gratification....immediate this and that  and when that doesn't happen....the new older puppy or dog finds it is not wanted and is suddenly, again, uprooted only to find yet another new family. Because we definitely DON'T want this to happen to our puppies, this information is to help you when making a decision on purchasing a toy sized dog or an older puppy.  If you've never owned a Toy breed, there is no way you can fully appreciate the disposition or temperament of a very small doodle.  Not all toy breeds are quirky...but too many are.

So, what is a Miniature Goldendoodle and why do some breeders call them "Miniature" Goldendoodles ?

The term "Miniature Goldendoodle"  is basically a "breeder's term" where hybrids are concerned and a term that some have used because breeders tend to "piggy back" off of each other even when  wrong.  I am not even sure who began calling their 35-50  pound Goldendoodles a Miniature Goldendoodle in the first place, but whoever it was, needs a real slap in the head.  What we have figured out thus far,  is that the term "Miniature Goldendoodle" is a term used very loosely  by some Goldendoodle creators or breeders who has used a MINIATURE SIZED POODLE as one of the doodle's parents. Using a Miniature sized dog as one  parent dog to another parent dog that is NOT a Miniature sized dog,  in NO WAY constitutes hybrid  offspring as being  Miniature sized dogs. It is very impractical for a hybrid breeder to call a 35-50 pound dog a "Miniature" sized dog because as stated above, true Miniature sized dogs do NOT weigh over 25 pounds in genetic body weight and a true Miniature sized dog has ancestors and an entire lineage for generations down the road of dogs who also were not over 25 pounds in genetic body weight. It took centuries to refine the purebred dog and that is why they are grouped into  size categories.

Using the term "Miniature Goldendoodle or Labradoodle" just because one parent is a Miniature sized dog is not only silly, its downright fraud. I personally  DO NOT see how ANY BREEDER could call a dog who is 35 to 50  pounds, a Miniature sized dog WITHOUT BREAKING UP WITH LAUGHTER!  Any professional breeder would agree that our information on this page is correct and accurate.  We do know that AUSTRALIA has its own dog size versions and that their versions are completely different than American Kennel Standards, so maybe these doodle creators are going by AUSTRALIAN STANDARDS. However, I don't know why any American Goldendoodle breeder would do this since their dogs were NOT born in Australia and are not registered with an Australian Kennel Club.  What we do know is that when erroneous information is spread like wild fire upon the internet by such breeders, unsuspecting Goldendoodle seekers fall for the erroneous information and become just as uneducated and ignorant  about the dog they now  own and purchased from the uneducated breeder that sold it to them. While I find such erroneous information very frustrating, I've just had to learn to ignore it and stop paying attention to the ignorance of other breeders that pop up on every street corner.

So, here's the low down! If you are seeking a poodle hybrid that will only be as small as 9 pounds in genetic weight, One of ITS parents MUST  BE  A TOY POODLE and the other parent must be a  Goldendoodle NOT much larger than the Toy Poodle. While it is possible to create small Goldendoodles using a Toy Poodle to a Golden Retriever of normal size, every sibling will vary in size within its litter.  Goldendoodles can not be classified in size categories unless they come from a lineage of ancestors who also share similar sizes in genetic body weight and height. We consider a Goldendoodle to be a  "mid-sized" dog if they do not weigh over 55 pounds.  Any hybrid that weighs over 55 pounds as an adult (from a genetic standpoint..not environmental) is a large breed dog.  Any hybrid who weighs under 35 pounds is a "small breed" dog. If you ARE A TOY BREED FAN and you want something different, CLICK HERE to see what we now have! No, they are not actual TOY sizes...but they are very small! Some breeders claim that small Goldendoodles can not be achieved through a first generation.  That is completely inaccurate. Since 1999, we have seen many of our Goldendoodles turn out to be 26-35 pounds in genetic body weight when one parent was a small Standard Poodle and the other parent was a Golden Retriever.  The entire litter was not small, but in each litter we created, we had small Goldendoodle pups available in them and they were not "runts".  Many breeders believe that when a Goldendoodle has more Poodle in its DNA, that it then will never shed or have LESS SHEDDING than a Goldendoodle who has an equal DNA of the Poodle and Golden Retriever. Because some breeders claim this on their websites, many ask  Will such a Goldendoodle  be less shedding than a Goldendoodle who has one parent a Poodle and one parent a Golden Retriever?  The only way to find out whether this is true, is to submit strands of hair to a canine lab, such as VETGEN,  who do genetic testing and ask them to perform DNA tests that would either support the claim or disprove the claim.  Like politics and religion, discussion on dogs and doodles is a very touchy subject and can be argued to death by those who either agree or disagree. People are going to believe what they want to believe and while we do know that a couple of new books have been published with regards to the Goldendoodle, we find much of the information written  to be complete rubbish and NOT of any help whatsoever to someone actually seeking Goldendoodle information that is factual.  The authors interjected their own personal opinions without doing much fact finding from experienced breeders, rather they contacted breeders who gave them THEIR inexperienced versions and so there you have it. They are making their dollars and don't really care whether the information is factual or not. Information placed on our site is our own personal opinions based on information we have either come across that we DO agree with or is factual information as we personally know it from personal experience and research from our own experience of creating and documenting information about our own Goldendoodles.  If you agree with the information we have on our site, great....if you don't, that's fine too.  We've been a professional private breeder since 1996 and every day we learn something new. Keeping an open mind and learning everything on a daily basis  is what  its all about. Being a breeder is a life long experience, as well as a collection of fact finding and skill.  Goldendoodle breeders are popping up on every street corner, undercutting breeders who have dedicated many years in their profession just to make a sale. While some will post accurate information, too many don't and will not because they either are inexperienced or uneducated about the hybrid. Too many are completely uneducated where the Goldendoodle dog is concerned and too many are jealous of those who are educated and experienced about this lovely hybrid. When you step into the breeder's arena, it's a whole new ballgame and not always a pleasant one.  People will buy a Goldendoodle from a breeder they feel they can connect with regardless of whether or not the breeder has the experience and knowledge about the breed they create.  That's reality whether we like it or not.

An international team led by researchers from the National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI), part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), has identified a genetic variant that is a major contributor to small sizes in dogs. The findings appear in the April 6, 2007 issue of the journal Science.

“The identification and characterization of a key genetic variant that accounts for differences in dog size is particularly exciting because the underlying gene is present in all dogs and other diverse species, including humans,” said Eric Green, M.D., Ph.D., scientific director of the NHGRI Division of Intramural Research. “Discoveries like this illustrate the exciting promise of genomics research for understanding the inheritance of a wide range of traits, including those that have an impact on health and disease.”

If you want to read the entire article, make sure to CLICK HERE but come on back! Our website will take you on a very lengthy Goldendoodle adventure if you are serious about knowing Goldendoodle FACTS!

UPDATED Editor's note:  In late 2006, we bred Suri (A Goldendoodle  who is 13 pounds to a 6 lbs. Toy Poodle.  To date (May 2007),  we have come to this conclusive evidence regarding  "Toy" (Goldendoodles under 15 lbs. as an adult) Goldendoodles:

1. Offspring who come from two parent dogs who are much closer in size to each other  turned out, themselves, to stay closer in size amongst siblings.  All four of Suri's doodle pups remained 12 pounds as adults.  Please note that even in 2007 when we bred a Goldendoodle sire (that had a Poodle within its DNA structure NOT closely related to the Poodle dam used for breeding)  to a small Standard Poodle, again we were able to witness the offspring remaining close to each other in size.  Each also had a similar coat type and body structure.

2. Temperaments and personalities were much improved with Suri's doodle litter, however, quirky Poodle traits were still observed to be a dominant factor. The same quirky traits were also observed in the offspring that had a Goldendoodle (with twice the Poodle DNA) father and a Poodle mother.  As of Sept. 2007, it has been our observation that offspring do NOT have quirky traits if a Goldendoodle sire (with twice the Poodle DNA) is bred to a purebred Golden Retriever and the offspring still have a low shedding coat.  One or two of such offspring will still be low shedding but will have a body/coat structure of a purebred Golden Retriever.

3. Goldendoodle offspring did not always have a curly coat if a Goldendoodle sire (with twice the Poodle DNA) was bred with a Standard Poodle who was NOT closely related. All of the offspring, however, DID have more Poodle traits in appearance, body structure and temperament.

4. Goldendoodle offspring WILL NOT be under 20 pounds in genetic body weight unless a Toy Poodle is involved as a parent.

5. Doodle offspring stay closer in size to each other when one parent is a Goldendoodle and the other parent is a non related Poodle or Golden Retriever  than when Goldendoodles are a 50/50 mix...ie...one parent being a Golden Retriever and one parent being a Poodle. 

6. Goldendoodles with more Golden Retriever DNA worked out more often with families who had children of various ages, than Goldendoodles with more Poodle DNA.  Those  who were NOT familiar with the purebred Poodle and adopted a doodle with twice the Poodle  have  the least success in owning their Goldendoodle  Than those who ARE familiar with the purebred Poodle and those who were MORE familiar with the Golden Retriever had the BEST success in owning their Goldendoodle that had more Golden Retriever DNA.  Those with children who adopted a Goldendoodle with twice the Poodle and were NOT familiar with the purebred Poodle  had the least success with their Goldendoodle due to issues between their children and the doodle  and those who had children of various ages who owned a Goldendoodle with more Golden Retriever DNA had the most success between their children and their doodle.